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  • #46

    http://blogs.unimelb.edu.au/musse/fi...ird_edited.JPG
    Nearest relatives
    Ever since moa were revealed to European scientists in 1840, the question of the bird’s closest relative has been debated. Many people assumed that it was the kiwi because the birds lived in the same area. Some researchers still believe this. However, kiwi have wings and moa did not. Others argue that moa are more closely related to emus and cassowaries.
    Certainly, moa are distantly related to the other ratites and have had an independent lineage for millennia. The moa ancestor was probably on the land that became New Zealand when it separated from the supercontinent Gondwana, some 85 million years ago. Moa evolved to become unlike any other bird, so comparisons are difficult. They differ genetically from other ratites


    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/moa/page-1

    Research published in 2010 has found that the moa's closest cousins are small terrestrial South American birds called the tinamous which are able to fly.[7] Previously, the kiwi, the Australian emu, and cassowary[8] were thought to be the closest ancestors
    wikipedia
    فهل هناك مثلا مصطلح convergent devolution أي تطور عكسي يمكن ان يفسر هذه الظاهرة؟؟؟!!...
    اذ يبدو- بزعم الدراونة -انه ثمة عدة طيور اصبح لديهـا أجنحة ضامرة من عدة أسلاف طائرة؟؟!!!



    وفي ورقة علمية بعنوان Independent origins of New Zealand moas and kiwis
    ورد ما يلي:
    .Contrary to

    expectation, the phylogenetic analysis shows that the kiwis are

    more closely related to Australian and African ratites than to

    the moas. Thus, New Zealand probably was colonized twice by

    ancestors of ratite birds

    http://www.pnas.org/content/89/18/8741.full.pdf

    The most surprising result of the phylogenetic analysis is that
    the two groups of New Zealand ratites have different origins,
    the moas representing an earlier divergence among ratites,
    whereas the kiwis more recently shared an ancestor with the
    ostrich and Australian ratites.


    It has been claimed that the ancestor of modern ratites was
    flightless (27) and that the major ratite groups evolved due to
    the break-up of Gondwanaland. However, the fact that moas
    and kiwis do not constitute a monophyletic group is incompatible
    with the view that all branching events between major
    groups of ratites were caused by continental break-ups
    .
    Under the assumption of a flightless ratite ancestor, the
    moas, which represent an early divergence among the ratites,
    and the kiwis, which represent a later divergence, must have
    been isolated together when New Zealand was separated
    from Australia at approximately 80 million years ago (28, 29).
    A more unlikely alternative would be that a kiwi ancestor
    arrived later by swimming. On the other hand, if the ratite
    ancestor was flying and flightlessness evolved several times
    among ratites, the kiwis can be assumed to have arrived later
    than the moas on New Zealand. Such an ancestral flying kiwi
    may have been related to the approximately 50- to 60-millionyear-
    old flying birds with archaic palates that have been
    found in North America and Europe (1, 2). The idea that birds
    can lose flight capacity and change their morphology in
    adaption to a ground-dwelling existence over a short time
    span has support from island faunas on New Zealand (21) and
    elsewhere (30, 31). Further work on the rate of evolution of
    the 12S rRNA gene in birds is necessary to clarify this point.

    تعليق


    • #47
      ه- القلب

      هل القلب ذات الاربع غرف لا يفيد الطيور التي لا تطير؟ وانها من مخلفات الأسلاف التي كانت بحاجة اليها؟...
      يأتي الجواب من هنا:
      THE HEART OF AN ALLIGATOR

      While most reptiles have 3-chambered he

      arts, the heart of alligators, and all crocodilians, has 4 chambers, a trait shared with mammals and birds. The advantage of a 4-chambered heart is that oxygenated blood and deoxygenated blood are separated, which results in more efficient respiration needed for the high metabolism of endothermic (warm-blooded) animals, and enables different pulmonary (lung) and systemic blood pressures, but is seemly over-complex fo

      r ectothermic (cold-blooded) crocodilians

      http://www.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitat...ligator/facts/

      هذا القلب لا يساعد فقط على الطيران---> الدليل وجوده عند التماسيح... تلك التي تملك ايضا اكياس الهواء... والتماسيح لا تطير...
      وهو موجود عند الثدييات... والاخيرة لا تطير... ولكن هذا النوع من القلوب هام جدا لكل اصحاب الدم الحار Sang Chaud...
      ولا نغفل ان الكيوي والنعام والدجاج منها...


      وكالعادة مفاجأتنا مع ال convergent التي لم اكن لأتخيل ان تكون بهذا الانتشار الرهيب والواسع النطاق...


      Amphibians have a three-chambered heart, while mammalian, crocodilian, and avian hearts have four chambers, two each for pulmonary and systemic circulations. The acquisition of a fully septated ventricle has evolved independently in birds, mammals, and crocodilians10, and is an important example of convergent evolution

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...MC2753965/#R10

      وللامانة ثمة من تحدث عن ان للطيور والتماسيح أصل واحد وهذا يفسر وجود هذا النوع من القلوب لدى الطرفين بغير ال convergent .
      ولكن نقلت ورقة علمية تقول العكس... واعتقد انه ثمة تخبط لديهم حتى في مسألة الدم الحار والدم البارد:
      Professor Roger Seymour from the Discipline of Environmental Biology says the modern crocodile heart is evidence that they were originally warm-blooded creatures that evolved into cold-blooded ones - an assertion which turns conventional evolutionary theory on its head.
      "There's an assumption that warm-bloodedness always evolves from cold-bloodedness, because being warm-blooded is seen as better - this is a reversal of that thinking," he said

      http://www.adelaide.edu.au/adelaidea.../news5550.html
      فكم مرة تطور اصحاب الدم البارد إذا ؟
      وهل يشترك الطيور مع الثدييات بسلف ذات دم حار؟


      ال convergent evolution هذا شبح لا مثيل له للدراونة صدقوني....

      تعليق


      • #48
        - قنبلة الpterosaurs!
        ترقبوا اليوم ان شاء الله اسخن الحلقات حول الطيور والتطور...
        اقصد تلك التي تطورت من الزواحف...
        وللتحمية نبدأ ببعض الصور...
        ملاحظة: لا يعني حديثي عن ال pterosaurs اني اقول بوجودها ضرورة... وهذا مع كثير من الامور... ولكنها من باب الزام المخالفين بما يقولون به...



        news.nationalgeographic.com



        bbc.co.uk

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