تويت
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
ادعى وحيد الجهول ان للتلمود اسنادا كما في الاحاديث ليحاول من خلالها اسقاط علم الجرح و التعديل الا ان وحيد لن يمرر جهله علينا و السبب هو ان هذا الاسناد الذي طار به وحيد فرحا - مع انه لم ينقله - لا يصح اذا طبقنا عليه قواعد الجرح و التعديل .
اسناد التلمود الذي تحاشا ذكره وحيد فقد ذكره المفسر ادم كلارك و نقله عنه الشيخ رحمة الله الهندي في كتابه اظهار الحق:
النص بالانجليزية من مقدمة تفسير ادم كلارك لسفر عزرا
((and having moreover repeated the oral law to Joshua his successor, he went on the seventh day into Mount Nebo, and there died; that after his death Joshua delivered the same oral law to the elders who after succeeded him, and they delivered it to the prophets, and the prophets transmitted it down to each other till it came to Jeremiah, who delivered it to Baruch, and Baruch to Ezra, by whom it was delivered to the men of the great synagogue, the last of whom was Simon the Just; that by him it was delivered to Antigonus of Socho, and by him to Jose the son of Jochanan, and by him to Jose the son of Joeser, and by him to Nathan the Arbelite and Joshua the son of Berachiah, and by them to Judah the son of Jabhai, and, Simeon the son of Shatah, and by them to Shemaiah and Abitulion, and by them to Hillel and by Hillel to Simeon his son, who is supposed to have been the same who took our Savior into his arms when he was brought to the temple to be there presented to the Lord at the time of his mother's purification; and by Simeon it was delivered to Gamaliel his son, the same at whose feet Paul was brought up, and by him to Simeon his son, by him to Gamaliel his son, and by him to Simeon his son, and by him to Rabbah Judah Hakkadosh his son, who wrote it into the book called the Mishnah. ))
https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cmt/clarke/ezr000.htm
الترجمة من كتاب اظهار الحق الباب الخامس في كون أن القرآن كلام الله ومعجزا ورفع شبهات القسيسين، الفصل الثالث : في إثبات صحة الأحاديث النبوية المروية في كتب الصحاح من كتب أهل السنة والجماعة
((وصعد على جبل نبو في اليوم السابع من الشهر ومات هناك وفوض يوشع بعد موت موسى هذه الروايات إلى المشايخ وهم فوضوا إلى الأنبياء فكان نبي يوصلها إلى نبي آخر إلى أن أوصل أرمياء إلى باروخ وباروخ إلى عذرا وعذرا إلى مجمع العلماء الذين كان شمعون صادق آخرهم وهو أوصل إلى اينيتي كونوس وهو إلى يوثي بن يختان وهو إلى يوسي بن يوسير وهو إلى نتهان الأريلي ويوشع بن برخيا وهما إلى يهودا بن يحيى وشمعون بن شطاه، وهما إلى شمايا وأبي طليون وهما إلى هلل وهو إلى ابنه شمعون، والمظنون أن شمعون هذا هو شمعون الذي أخذ ربنا المنجي على اليدين إذ جاءت مريم به إلى الهيكل بعد ما تمت أيام تطهيرها وهو أوصل إلى كملئيل ابنه وكملئيل هذا هو الذي تعلم منه بولس وهو أوصل إلى شمعون ابنه وهو إلى كملئيل ابنه وهو إلى شمعون ابنه وهو إلى رب يهودا حق دوش ابنه، وجمع يهودا هذا هذه الروايات في كتاب سماه مسنا انتهى.))
و هذا اسناد ضعيف تالف اذا طبقنا عليه قواعد علم الجرح و التعديل :
١. وذلك للابهام الواقع بين عزرا و بين شمعون صادق فلا نعلم من هم مجمع العلماء الذين كان شمعون اخرهم و هذا الابهام يحتوي على اكثر من رجل ساقط من الاسناد بلا شك فقد عاش شمعون في نهاية القرن الرابع قبل الميلاد بينما عاش عزرا في منتصف القرن الخامس قبل الميلاد
٢. علاوة على وجود الخلاف في هوية شمعون الصادق نفسه
نقرا من الموسوعة اليهودية
((High priest. He is identical either with Simeon I. (310-291 or 300-270 B.C.), son of Onias I., and grandson of Jaddua, or with Simeon II. (219-199 B.C.), son of Onias II. Many statements concerning him are variously ascribed by scholars to four different persons who bore the same surname; e.g., to Simeon I. by Fränkel and Grätz; to Simeon II. by Krochmal and Brüll; to Simon Maccabeus by Löw; and to Simeon the son of Gamaliel by Weiss.
About no other high priest does such a mixture of fact and fiction center, the Talmud, Josephus, and the Second Book of Maccabees all containing accounts of him. He was termed "the Just" either because of the piety of his life and his benevolence toward his compatriots (Josephus, "Ant." xii. 2, § 5), or because he took thought for his people (Ecclus. [Sirach] l. 4). He was deeply interested both in the spiritual and in the material development of the nation. Thus, according to Ecclus. (Sirach) l. 1-14, he rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem, which had been torn down by Ptolemy Soter, and repaired the damage done to the Temple, raising the foundation-walls of its court and enlarging the cistern therein so that it was like a pool (that these statements can apply only to Simeon I. is shown by Grätz, and they agree, moreover, with the Talmudic accounts of Simeon's undertakings).))
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...simon-the-just
٣. انقطاع اسانيد المشناة الى الراباي يهودا و تلامذته شمويل و راب
وكذلك فان التلمود (الذي احتوى على المشناة فيما بعد ) قد تضمن على عديد من التنقيحات
The history of the origin of the Talmud is the same as that of the Mishnah—a tradition, transmitted orally for centuries, was finally cast into definite literary form, although from the moment in which the Talmud became the chief subject of study in the academies it had a double existence, and was accordingly, in its final stage, redacted in two different forms. The Mishnah of Judah I. was adopted simultaneously in Babylon and Palestine as the halakic collection par excellence; and at the same time the development of the Talmud was begun both at Sepphoris, where the Mishnah was redacted, and at Nehardea and Sura, where Judah's pupils Samuel and Rab engaged in their epoch-making work. The academies of Babylon and of Palestine alike regarded the study of the Mishnah and its interpretation as their chief task. The Amoraim, as the directors and members of these academies were called ( see Amora), became the originators of the Talmud; and its final redaction marked the end of the amoraic times in the same way that the period of the Tannaim was concluded by the compilation of the Mishnah of Judah I. Like the Mishnah, the Talmud was not the work of one author or of several authors, but was the result of the collective labors of many successive generations, whose toil finally resulted in a book unique in its mode of development.
......
The date at which the Talmud was committed to writing is purely conjectural. The work itself contains neither statements nor allusions to show that any complete or partial copy of the work redacted and completed by Ashi and Rabina had been made in their days; and the same lack of information characterizes both Yerushalmi and the Mishnah (the basis of both the Talmudim), as well as the other works of the tannaitic period. There are, however, allusions, although they are only sporadic, which show that the Halakah and the Haggadah were committed to writing; for copies were described as being in the possession of individual scholars, who were occasionally criticized for owning them. This censure was based on an interdiction issued in the third century, which forbade any one to commit the teachings of tradition to writing or to use a manuscript of such a character in lecturing (see Giṭ. 60a; Tem. 14b).
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14213-talmud
و هذا يعني ان جمع التلمود في كتاب واحد بدا مع الحبر اشي في القرن الرابع ثم الحبر رابي في بداية القرن الخامس الميلادي
نقرا من الموسوعة اليهودية JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA :
ASHI:
By: Marcus Jastrow, Wilhelm Bacher
A celebrated Babylonian amora; born 352; died 427; reestablished the academy at Sura, and was the first editor of the Babylonian Talmud. According to a tradition preserved in the academies (Ḳid. 72b), Ashi was born in the same year that Raba, the great teacher of MaḦuza, died, and he was the first teacher of any importance in the Babylonian colleges after Raba's death.
When Ashi undertook the final redaction of the Talmud he evidently had at his disposal notes of this kind, although Brüll (l.c. p. 18) is probably correct in ascribing to Rabina the first complete written copy of the Talmud; Rabina had as collaborators many of the Saboraim, to whom an ancient and incontrovertible tradition assigns numerous additions to the Talmudic text.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1945-ashi
بمعنى اخر ان بين الحبر اشي و بين شمويل و راب تلميذي الحبر يهودا جامع المسماة ما يقارب ٢٠٠ سنة من الانقطاع و لا نعلم ااعتمدا على الاصل في الكتاب ان على نسخة واذا كانت نسخة فمن هو كاتب تلك النسخة ؟؟؟
هذا وصلى الله على سيدنا محمد و على اله وصحبه وسلم
ادعى وحيد الجهول ان للتلمود اسنادا كما في الاحاديث ليحاول من خلالها اسقاط علم الجرح و التعديل الا ان وحيد لن يمرر جهله علينا و السبب هو ان هذا الاسناد الذي طار به وحيد فرحا - مع انه لم ينقله - لا يصح اذا طبقنا عليه قواعد الجرح و التعديل .
اسناد التلمود الذي تحاشا ذكره وحيد فقد ذكره المفسر ادم كلارك و نقله عنه الشيخ رحمة الله الهندي في كتابه اظهار الحق:
النص بالانجليزية من مقدمة تفسير ادم كلارك لسفر عزرا
((and having moreover repeated the oral law to Joshua his successor, he went on the seventh day into Mount Nebo, and there died; that after his death Joshua delivered the same oral law to the elders who after succeeded him, and they delivered it to the prophets, and the prophets transmitted it down to each other till it came to Jeremiah, who delivered it to Baruch, and Baruch to Ezra, by whom it was delivered to the men of the great synagogue, the last of whom was Simon the Just; that by him it was delivered to Antigonus of Socho, and by him to Jose the son of Jochanan, and by him to Jose the son of Joeser, and by him to Nathan the Arbelite and Joshua the son of Berachiah, and by them to Judah the son of Jabhai, and, Simeon the son of Shatah, and by them to Shemaiah and Abitulion, and by them to Hillel and by Hillel to Simeon his son, who is supposed to have been the same who took our Savior into his arms when he was brought to the temple to be there presented to the Lord at the time of his mother's purification; and by Simeon it was delivered to Gamaliel his son, the same at whose feet Paul was brought up, and by him to Simeon his son, by him to Gamaliel his son, and by him to Simeon his son, and by him to Rabbah Judah Hakkadosh his son, who wrote it into the book called the Mishnah. ))
https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/cmt/clarke/ezr000.htm
الترجمة من كتاب اظهار الحق الباب الخامس في كون أن القرآن كلام الله ومعجزا ورفع شبهات القسيسين، الفصل الثالث : في إثبات صحة الأحاديث النبوية المروية في كتب الصحاح من كتب أهل السنة والجماعة
((وصعد على جبل نبو في اليوم السابع من الشهر ومات هناك وفوض يوشع بعد موت موسى هذه الروايات إلى المشايخ وهم فوضوا إلى الأنبياء فكان نبي يوصلها إلى نبي آخر إلى أن أوصل أرمياء إلى باروخ وباروخ إلى عذرا وعذرا إلى مجمع العلماء الذين كان شمعون صادق آخرهم وهو أوصل إلى اينيتي كونوس وهو إلى يوثي بن يختان وهو إلى يوسي بن يوسير وهو إلى نتهان الأريلي ويوشع بن برخيا وهما إلى يهودا بن يحيى وشمعون بن شطاه، وهما إلى شمايا وأبي طليون وهما إلى هلل وهو إلى ابنه شمعون، والمظنون أن شمعون هذا هو شمعون الذي أخذ ربنا المنجي على اليدين إذ جاءت مريم به إلى الهيكل بعد ما تمت أيام تطهيرها وهو أوصل إلى كملئيل ابنه وكملئيل هذا هو الذي تعلم منه بولس وهو أوصل إلى شمعون ابنه وهو إلى كملئيل ابنه وهو إلى شمعون ابنه وهو إلى رب يهودا حق دوش ابنه، وجمع يهودا هذا هذه الروايات في كتاب سماه مسنا انتهى.))
و هذا اسناد ضعيف تالف اذا طبقنا عليه قواعد علم الجرح و التعديل :
١. وذلك للابهام الواقع بين عزرا و بين شمعون صادق فلا نعلم من هم مجمع العلماء الذين كان شمعون اخرهم و هذا الابهام يحتوي على اكثر من رجل ساقط من الاسناد بلا شك فقد عاش شمعون في نهاية القرن الرابع قبل الميلاد بينما عاش عزرا في منتصف القرن الخامس قبل الميلاد
٢. علاوة على وجود الخلاف في هوية شمعون الصادق نفسه
نقرا من الموسوعة اليهودية
((High priest. He is identical either with Simeon I. (310-291 or 300-270 B.C.), son of Onias I., and grandson of Jaddua, or with Simeon II. (219-199 B.C.), son of Onias II. Many statements concerning him are variously ascribed by scholars to four different persons who bore the same surname; e.g., to Simeon I. by Fränkel and Grätz; to Simeon II. by Krochmal and Brüll; to Simon Maccabeus by Löw; and to Simeon the son of Gamaliel by Weiss.
About no other high priest does such a mixture of fact and fiction center, the Talmud, Josephus, and the Second Book of Maccabees all containing accounts of him. He was termed "the Just" either because of the piety of his life and his benevolence toward his compatriots (Josephus, "Ant." xii. 2, § 5), or because he took thought for his people (Ecclus. [Sirach] l. 4). He was deeply interested both in the spiritual and in the material development of the nation. Thus, according to Ecclus. (Sirach) l. 1-14, he rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem, which had been torn down by Ptolemy Soter, and repaired the damage done to the Temple, raising the foundation-walls of its court and enlarging the cistern therein so that it was like a pool (that these statements can apply only to Simeon I. is shown by Grätz, and they agree, moreover, with the Talmudic accounts of Simeon's undertakings).))
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...simon-the-just
٣. انقطاع اسانيد المشناة الى الراباي يهودا و تلامذته شمويل و راب
وكذلك فان التلمود (الذي احتوى على المشناة فيما بعد ) قد تضمن على عديد من التنقيحات
The history of the origin of the Talmud is the same as that of the Mishnah—a tradition, transmitted orally for centuries, was finally cast into definite literary form, although from the moment in which the Talmud became the chief subject of study in the academies it had a double existence, and was accordingly, in its final stage, redacted in two different forms. The Mishnah of Judah I. was adopted simultaneously in Babylon and Palestine as the halakic collection par excellence; and at the same time the development of the Talmud was begun both at Sepphoris, where the Mishnah was redacted, and at Nehardea and Sura, where Judah's pupils Samuel and Rab engaged in their epoch-making work. The academies of Babylon and of Palestine alike regarded the study of the Mishnah and its interpretation as their chief task. The Amoraim, as the directors and members of these academies were called ( see Amora), became the originators of the Talmud; and its final redaction marked the end of the amoraic times in the same way that the period of the Tannaim was concluded by the compilation of the Mishnah of Judah I. Like the Mishnah, the Talmud was not the work of one author or of several authors, but was the result of the collective labors of many successive generations, whose toil finally resulted in a book unique in its mode of development.
......
The date at which the Talmud was committed to writing is purely conjectural. The work itself contains neither statements nor allusions to show that any complete or partial copy of the work redacted and completed by Ashi and Rabina had been made in their days; and the same lack of information characterizes both Yerushalmi and the Mishnah (the basis of both the Talmudim), as well as the other works of the tannaitic period. There are, however, allusions, although they are only sporadic, which show that the Halakah and the Haggadah were committed to writing; for copies were described as being in the possession of individual scholars, who were occasionally criticized for owning them. This censure was based on an interdiction issued in the third century, which forbade any one to commit the teachings of tradition to writing or to use a manuscript of such a character in lecturing (see Giṭ. 60a; Tem. 14b).
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14213-talmud
و هذا يعني ان جمع التلمود في كتاب واحد بدا مع الحبر اشي في القرن الرابع ثم الحبر رابي في بداية القرن الخامس الميلادي
نقرا من الموسوعة اليهودية JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA :
ASHI:
By: Marcus Jastrow, Wilhelm Bacher
A celebrated Babylonian amora; born 352; died 427; reestablished the academy at Sura, and was the first editor of the Babylonian Talmud. According to a tradition preserved in the academies (Ḳid. 72b), Ashi was born in the same year that Raba, the great teacher of MaḦuza, died, and he was the first teacher of any importance in the Babylonian colleges after Raba's death.
When Ashi undertook the final redaction of the Talmud he evidently had at his disposal notes of this kind, although Brüll (l.c. p. 18) is probably correct in ascribing to Rabina the first complete written copy of the Talmud; Rabina had as collaborators many of the Saboraim, to whom an ancient and incontrovertible tradition assigns numerous additions to the Talmudic text.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1945-ashi
بمعنى اخر ان بين الحبر اشي و بين شمويل و راب تلميذي الحبر يهودا جامع المسماة ما يقارب ٢٠٠ سنة من الانقطاع و لا نعلم ااعتمدا على الاصل في الكتاب ان على نسخة واذا كانت نسخة فمن هو كاتب تلك النسخة ؟؟؟
هذا وصلى الله على سيدنا محمد و على اله وصحبه وسلم
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